Forum of Labour Market Ministers LMI from the Perspective of Intermediaries who Work with Different Types of Clients Lana Bauer, School System, SK Marcel Goguen, Unemployed Clients, NB Kristi Kerford, Trent University, ON
Plan of the presentation n Discussion at the FLMM-LMIWG Research in the literature to identify criteria Selection of participants: n n Lana Bauer, School System, SK Marcel Goguen, Unemployed Clients, NB Kristi Kerford, Trent University, ON Selection of the experimental tasks: n Task one: search on two case scenarios n n FLMM website as a portail of websites Their own search Task two: evaluation of two sites based on a grid Process for today
Process of today n n Task #1: First scenario: common to all three; starting with the FLMM page; than their own style of searching Task #1: Second scenario: their own choice based on their specific clientele Task #2: Assessment of a website common to all, according to a grid Task #2: Assessment of a website of their choice
Criteria for the first task n n n n Did you find the information? How long did it take you to find the information? Number of trials and errors Was the information appropriate, accurate? How useful was it? Did you find contradictory information? Did you find information for questions not identified in the scenarios?
FLMM Website as a portal Scenario 1 I am interested in environmental issues. I would like to work in this area. I want to know more about the best job opportunities in this field and I do not want to study at the University.
Results for Service Canada sites Labour Market n n Does not help you with misspelled words Build Your Occupational Profile or Where To Get Training give me 5 occupational titles once I have eliminated university level occupations. n n n 2231 Civil Engineering Technician 2263 Inspector in Public and Environmental Health 3413 Nurse Aides & Orderlies 9424 Water and Waste Plant Operator 9484 Assemblers & Inspectors, Electric Appliances
Results for Service Canada sites n n n Choose Toronto and Ontario as location Information dated from 2005 -09 -22 2231 Civil Engineer Tech. n n n Give me Job Description Give me Who Hires Employment Prospects – not underlined Wage and Salaries – not underlined 2263 Inspector in Public and Environmental Health n n Give me Job Description Give me Who Hires Employment Prospects – not underlined Wage and Salaries – not underlined
Results for Service Canada sites n n 3413 Nurse Aide – not related to what I want when I am talking about environment 9424 Water and Waste Plan Operator n n n Job Description– give information Job and Skills Requirements – give info. Employment Prospects – not underlined Wages and Salaries – not underlined Where to Get Training – not underlined Who Hires – not underlined
Results for Service Canada sites n 9484 Assemblers & Inspectors, Electric Appliances n Not suitable when I read Job Description.
Results for Service Canada sites n Summary after 30 minutes of searching n n n Doesn’t correct misspelled words Only give me a list of 5 potential occupations 2 of these occupations did not represent the concept of environmental issues in the initial search. For the other 3 occupations It did have information on Job Descriptions and Who Hires But no information on n Employment Prospects Wages and Salaries Where to Get Training
Doing my own search I am interested in environmental issues. I would like to work in this area. I want to know more about the best job opportunities in this field and I do not want to study at the University n n Started by consulting the National Occupational Classification (NOC) Identified 30 potential occupations Use same Service Canada Website Change location –use Moncton, New Brunswick.
30 Occupations n n n n 2213 Meteorological Technician (limited info) 2221 Biological Technician (got info) 2222 Agricultural and Fish Products Inspectors (limited info) 2223 Forestry Technician (got info) 2224 Conservation and Fishery Officer (got info. ) 2225 Landscape and Horticultural Tech. (got info. ) 2231 Civil Engineering Tech. (got info. ) 2251 Architectural Tech. (limited info)
30 Occupations n n 2254 Land Survey Tech. (got info. ) 2255 Mapping Tech. (got info. ) 2262 Engineering Inspector (got info. ) 2263 Inspector in Public and Environmental Health (got info. ) n n n 6442 Outdoor Sport and Recreational Guide (no info) 6463 By-law Enforcement (no info) 7422 Public Work Maintenance Equipment Operator (got info. )
30 Occupations n n n 7621 Public Work Maintenance Labourer (got info. ) 8252 Agricultural & Service Contractor or Manager (no info) 8253 Farm Supervisor (no info) 8254 Nursery and Greenhouse Manager (limited info) 8255 Landscape Contractor or Manager (got info. ) 8256 Supervisor in Landscape or Horticulture (got info. ) n 8257 Aquaculture Operator or Manager (no info)
30 Occupations n n 8421 Chainsaw Operator (not underlined) 8422 Silviculture & Forestry Worker (got info. ) 8431 General Farm Worker (not underlined) 8432 Nursery and Greenhouse Worker (got info. ) n 8611 Harvesting Labourer (got info. ) 8612 Landscape Labourer (got info. ) 8613 Aquaculture Labourer (got info. ) n 9424 Water & Waste Plant Operator (no info. ) n n
Doing my own search Summary n n Using the NOC, I found 30 occupations Search for 40 minutes Use the same Service Canada website but changed the location to Moncton, NB Found the following info on 18 occupations. n n n Job Descriptions Employment Prospects Wages and Salaries Where to Get Training Who Hires
Doing my own search Summary n n n 4 occupations had limited information 6 occupations had no information 2 occupations were not underlined, meaning no information available.
Results for Service Canada sites KK Service Canada – National Job Futures n n Searched “I want to be a…” - Alphabet - “e” Searched - NOC – Natural and Applied Science Searched - Education – College Searched - Work Prospects Labour Market Information. ca n Searched Employment Prospects - By region and Job Type Summary n n n Unsuccessful in finding information relating to the environment industry Without defining what I meant by environment, it was difficult to find appropriate information Realized after the fact, that I may have been able to use the general site search in the top right hand corner (Job Futures)
Doing my own search - KK Eco Canada n n Log in - Student Career matching n No level of education option at beginning to narrow search n Detailed occupational profiles for environmental careers Summary n Quick, user-friendly information
Task 1: Scenarios- Lana ü ü 9 colleagues complete the same 2 scenarios - collated counsellor information Scenario 1: -5 selected Job. Futures. ca -2 selected Jobsetc. ca -1 selected Saskjobfutures. ca -1 labourmarketinformation. ca
Scenario 1 Jobfutures. ca Interest Thought it was key word search but found it was categories of broad interests of people, information, people Alphabet § E – no information found Search (the site) § Environment was too general of a term to use § Need specific occupation titles to use NOC § Natural and Applied Sciences § Life Sciences Technicians (222) § Training was general – no specific schools identified §
Scenario 1 Jobsetc. ca Search (of site) n A-Z index (environment) n Link to eco. ca n Site provided information on occupation titles by interest and education Career Exploration n Career Directions: Field of work n Agribusiness, Natual Resources, Environment n 15 occupational titles n General – no specific locations/schools identified
Scenario 1 saskjobfutures. ca Occupation Listing n Natural and Applied Sciences n Technical Training list n NOC (222) n Provided general information and Saskatchewan specific information for training, wages, job opportunities
Scenario 1 labourmarketinformation. ca Job description n Only way to search was Job Type (needed specific occupation titles) n Natural and Applied Sciences -Table of contents for a variety of occupations (levels of education) Training n No information available
Summary for Scenario 1 search n n n Trial and error to get to locate the information on all sites Specific post-secondary information was found on only two of the sites: -jobsetc – link to eco. ca -saskjobfutures Knowledge of the NOC to use the sites successfully
Second scenario I want to become a Electrician. I want to know if there are jobs in this occupation and how much it pays before taking the training. n Decided to search at 3 different websites to compared LMI n n n Services Canada website Survey of 2005 New Brunswick Community College Graduates Job Futures website
Electrician n Service Canada – location: Moncton, NB : n n n Survey of 2005 NB Community College Graduates n n n Employment Prospect : Limited Salary $ 18. 95 per hour (average) Employment Prospect: Good, 87% placement rate Salary $ 14. 30 per hour (starting) Job Futures n n Employment Prospect: Fair Salary $19. 70 per hour (average)
Preference of LMI for a Career Counsellor working with unemployed clients n n Labour market information need to be given by occupations (520 unit groups) and not by industries, fields or sectors. LMI need to be given for all occupations; do research if information is not available Labour market information need to be provided preferably from local sources, followed by provincial sources and finally national sources. Various sources or internet sites need to work together to present more thorough LMI information
Second Scenario - KK “I would like to apply to law School in Canada, to study intellectual property law. What are the job prospects and salaries in this field in Canada? Is there any ranking or a complete list of law schools in Canada? ” Search Using Service Canada web sites Service Canada – Training and Careers - Training and Learning - Post-sec. options n Can Learn – need advanced search on home page n Found complete list of law schools Service Canada – National Job Futures n I want to be a…Lawyer – not there n Search – Lawyer – found judges, lawyers and law n Found profile, prospects and salary info Summay n Found the education information quite easily – links to Can Learn n Would like an advanced program search on the home page of Can Learn n Search was more challenging with Job Futures, after 2 tries, searched by job title in the general search in top right corner n Did not find any rankings or specific intellectual property law information
My own search process Can. Learn. ca – list of programs (same as above) Job Futures – job prospects (same as above) Career. Cruising – Career Profile – with job prospects Google n n Canadian Law School Rankings - http: //www. top-lawschools. com/canadian-law-school-rankings. html Intellectual Property Law Canada - http: //cipo. gc. ca/ Summary n n Similar information and sources, but in some cases went directly to the site, rather than starting with Service Canada site Found more information through Google regarding rankings and specific area of law – these sites would need to be evaluatated by user (i. e. who is the author? )
Scenario 2 A student is interested in gemology. He/she wants to know where they can study in Canada to become an accredited gemologist. Scenario 2: -4 selected Labourmarketinformation. ca -2 selected jobfutures. ca -1 saskjobfutures. ca -2 gave up on the FLMM sites
FLMM sites: jobfutures, labourmarketinformation, jobsetc, saskjobfutures Jobsetc. ca n No results found Other 3 sites n Similar process was attempted to find information on gemologist -alphabetical – no results -Search NOC category (trades, sales and services, art and culture) -Site search: Trades, transport, and equipment operators (734 - Upholsterers, Tailors, Shoe Repairer, Jewellers, and Related Occupations) -Training – no information for Gemologist was given (on-the-jobtraining or jeweler course) - no specific courses/locations were identified (Quebec and New Brunswick needed certification to work as a jeweller)
Summary for Scenario 2 n n n No cross-reference of key occupations with related occupations (Jeweller and Gemologist) Knowledge of the NOC was necessary to find its sub-category No specific post-secondary information was found
Own method of search Use career development software n General information use links for specific or more information Scenario 1: n Searched career zones/interests: Science and Environment – list of occupations n Programs of Study – post-secondary options Scenario 2: n Site Search: Gemologist (Jeweller) n Linked to Related Occupations Gemstone Cutter n Link to the Canadian Gemmological Association – course of study (offered in Toronto and Vancouver – link to each program) n
Sampson and Al Very low/weak Moderate Very high/clear 1 2 3 4 5 The audiences are clearly being identified The user’s needs are clearly identified The links to resources and services are related to specific needs A description rather than a title is provided Potential learning outcomes are identified Recommendations on the use of the site are provided Page design (font, colors, styles, headers, footers, graphics) Limited demand on memory (7 ± 2 options on any page) Browsability (grouping and classifying similar information) Readability (language level appropriate for audiences served) Page can stand alone if person links from elsewhere Clarification of path chosen? Elements How good is the printability?
Feedback on BC website Ministry of Advanced Education n Template n n The audience are clearly being identified The user’s needs are clearly identified The links to resources and services are related to specific needs 2 4 4 Elements of each link n n n A description rather than a title is provided Potential learning outcomes are identified Recommendations on the use of the site are provided Legend: 1 very low, weak 3 moderate 5 very high, clear 5 2 2
Feedback on BC website Ministry of Advanced Education n Overall coherence n n Page design (font, colors, styles, headers footers, graphics) 3 Cognitive aspects n n n Limited demand on memory (7 + options on any page) 4 Browsability (grouping and classifying similar info. ) 4 Readability (language level appropriate for audiences served) 4 Legend: 1 very low, weak 3 moderate 5 very high, clear
Feedback on BC website Ministry of Advanced Education n Self-sufficiency n n Page can stand alone if person links from elsewhere 4 Nagivation n n Clarification on path chosen How good is the printability Legend: 1 very low, weak 3 moderate 3 4 5 very high, clear
BC Website - KK Strengths n Liked the topical groupings that allowed for easy navigation, browsability and readability n Provided descriptions with links n Print-friendly option Weaknesses n Unclear about who site audience is n No recommendations on how to use site
Task 2: Web Site Evaluations ü 9 counsellors ü 4 Students ü Information is collated and the groups are compared
www. aved. gov. bc. ca/labormarketinfo/ Template Audience clearly identified User’s needs clearly identified Links are related to needs Elements of Links Description & title Outcomes identifies Recommendations for use Overall Coherence Page design Counsellor Student 3 -5 3 4 -5 2 3 4 5 3 3 4 4 2 3 -4 1
www. aved. gov. bc. ca/labormarketinfo/ con’t Cognitive aspects Limited memory demand Browsability Readability Self-sufficiency Page stands alone Navigation Clarification of path Printability Counsellor Student 2 -3 3 -4 3 4 4 3 3 -5 3 3
Summary of BC website Strengths Easy navigation n Browsability n Weakness Audience and purpose not clearly identified n Too much on a page n
Feedback on NB Website Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour n Template n n The audience are clearly being identified 2 The user’s needs are clearly identified 2 The links to resources and services are related to specific needs 3 Elements of each link n n n A description rather than a title is provided Potential learning outcomes are identified Recommendations on the use of the site are provided Legend: 1 very low, weak 3 moderate 2 2 2 5 very high, clear
Feedback on NB Website Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour n Overall coherence n n Page design (font, colors, styles, headers footers, graphics) 3 Cognitive aspects n n n Limited demand on memory (7 + options on any page) 3 Browsability (grouping and classifying similar info. ) 3 Readability (language level appropriate for audiences served) 3 Legend: 1 very low, weak 3 moderate 5 very high, clear
Feedback on NB Website Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour n Self-sufficiency n n Page can stand alone if person links from elsewhere 3 Navigation n n Clarification on path chosen How good is the printability Legend: 1 very low, weak 3 moderate 2 4 5 very high, clear
Feedback on PEI Website Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour n Template n n The audience are clearly being identified 3 The user’s needs are clearly identified 4 The links to resources and services are related to specific needs 4 Elements of each link n n n A description rather than a title is provided Potential learning outcomes are identified Recommendations on the use of the site are provided Legend: 1 very low, weak 3 moderate 2 2 4 5 very high, clear
Feedback on PEI Website Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour n Overall coherence n n Page design (font, colors, styles, headers footers, graphics) 2 Cognitive aspects n n n Limited demand on memory (7 + options on any page) 2 Browsability (grouping and classifying similar info. ) 3 Readability (language level appropriate for audiences served) 3 Legend: 1 very low, weak 3 moderate 5 very high, clear
Feedback on PEI Website Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour n Self-sufficiency n n Page can stand alone if person links from elsewhere 3 Navigation n n Clarification on path chosen How good is the printability Legend: 1 very low, weak 3 moderate 3 3 5 very high, clear
PEI Web site - KK Strengths n Good identification of users n Recommendations on how to use site Weaknesses n Too many links on home page – no clear descriptions of links
www. labourmarketinformation. ca * one teacher rated the category at 1 Template Audience clearly identified User’s needs clearly identified Links are related to needs Counsellor 2 -4 4 -5 5 Student 4 4 4 Elements of Links Description & title Outcomes identifies Recommendations for use Overall Coherence Page design 3 5 *3 -5 4 5 5 *3 5
www. labourmarketinformation. ca con’t * one teacher rated the category at 1 Cognitive aspects Limited memory demand Browsability Readability Self-sufficiency Page stands alone Navigation Clarification of path Printability Counsellor Student *4 -5 *5 2 -5 4 5 5 3 -5 5 *3 -5 *5 5 5
Summary of LMI site Strengths Navigation n Browsability n Local information n Print options n Weaknesses Small print n Search can be too narrow n Knowledge of NOC would be beneficial (if occupation title is not the key word used in database) n
Summary FLMM sites n n n Variety of LMI on the sites Users (counsellors and students) would benefit from understanding of NOC Would use sites to further research LM issue Need provide clear directions for search when using with students Trail and error to find information
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